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Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
79
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Posted - 2016.01.15 18:53:12 -
[1] - Quote
All this would do is effectively take the market away from the userbase and allow CCP to control prices through exchange rates. This is a step away from the free market that we all love about EVE |

Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
79
|
Posted - 2016.01.15 18:59:27 -
[2] - Quote
GTN wrote:Isaac Armer wrote:All this would do is effectively take the market away from the userbase and allow CCP to control prices through exchange rates. This is a step away from the free market that we all love about EVE CCP cannot control the exchange rates, just like CCP cannot control the exchange rate of tritanium to isk. Actually adding currencies would give more freedom. I don't see where is the freedom in being forced to use a currency that anyone can print.
Who determines that 100,000 trit are worth 100,000 caldari credits? |

Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
79
|
Posted - 2016.01.15 19:09:13 -
[3] - Quote
GTN wrote:Isaac Armer wrote:Who determines that 100,000 trit are worth 100,000 caldari credits? Who determines that 1 caldari credit is worth 6 isk?
I'm trying to get you to think through the idea you proposed, you tell me. It wouldn't work for a few very blatant reasons. |

Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
79
|
Posted - 2016.01.15 19:14:45 -
[4] - Quote
GTN wrote:Yet those reasons are nowhere to be heard.
Walk me through how we would determine that 100,000 trit is worth 100,000 caldari credits.
You never answered my question. |

Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
79
|
Posted - 2016.01.15 19:32:10 -
[5] - Quote
GTN wrote:The userbase has determined that 1 tritanium is worth 6 isk, thus 1 caldari credit will be worth 6 isk. If the userbase determines that tritanium is worth 7 isk, then 1 caldari credit will be worth 7 isk.
Exactly the problem. Now there are four more currencies to manipulate, making market fluctuation swing even wilder than they are now. It would do nothing for inflation, it would only line the pockets of those who care enough to play currency games. If anything, it would make predicting inflation/deflationary trends even more difficult than it is today.
The only feasible way you could use this to control inflation would be to have CCP set limits on the exchange rates, which is not something we want. |

Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
79
|
Posted - 2016.01.15 19:40:59 -
[6] - Quote
GTN wrote:You say that you don't want CCP to set exchange rates, then complain when players manipulate the market and set their own exchange rates? The irony is strong.
Did you read what I wrote? Players manipulating the market is good for the game. That taken to a ridiculous extreme is not.
"If a little of something is good, it doesn't mean a lot of the same thing is great"
That's the idea behind 'balance' |

Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
79
|
Posted - 2016.01.15 20:16:38 -
[7] - Quote
GTN wrote:Good luck manipulating tritanium.
You don't understand how market manipulation works, do you? I didn't read the other responses, but going back and doing that, read what Serendipity Lost said. |

Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
79
|
Posted - 2016.01.15 20:57:38 -
[8] - Quote
GTN wrote:The exchange rate of tritanium to caldari credit can be determined by the userbase through a voting system. But once set, it's forever.
I really, really hope you're trolling. |

Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
79
|
Posted - 2016.01.15 21:17:40 -
[9] - Quote
GTN wrote:It has already happened. For me ISK has no value. I keep all my wealth in tritanium and try to keep my ISK to a minimum. Right now I have 50 million ISK in the wallet. If I need to buy something, I sell some tritanium for ISK and then buy the thing that I want immediately. ISK will lose its value very fast once people realize that it has no value. What is keeping it from dying is the belief of miners that ISK has value. Once miners stop accepting ISK, it's game over.
So either
1. (most likely) you are simply trolling or
2. This has nothing to do with inflation and is just a bizarre way for you to make your insane way of managing wealth easier |

Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
81
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Posted - 2016.01.15 21:30:34 -
[10] - Quote
GTN wrote:Faction currency, because the value of ISK is zero.
Reported for trolling, because I'm not taking your bait and wasting time explaining basic economics to you. |
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Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
82
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Posted - 2016.01.15 22:20:13 -
[11] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:In GTNGÇÖs defense, resource backed currencies are much harder to manipulate. However, GreshamGÇÖs law indicates that people would prefer to hoard such currencies than use them as a medium of exchange precisely because they can be an effective hedge against inflation.
In the real world, yes, but that isn't as applicable here. Resource based currency is based on a finite supply of that resource existing. In new eden, rocks continually regenerate, and are unlimited in supply. Someone trying to drive the value of silver up by buying it out works because we can't make more silver. Someone hoarding trit won't work because someone can mine more tomorrow.
Geckos as the resource we base it on? Yes. Rocks? No. |

Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
82
|
Posted - 2016.01.15 23:01:58 -
[12] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Actually that is exactly why tritanium would be a good choice.
During WWI countries went off the gold standard. Then afterwards their monetary and fiscal situations were often chaotic and a mess. So people reasoned, GÇ£WeGÇÖll go on the Gold standard and that will sort it out.GÇ¥ But once you go on something you can always go off. This created speculative pressure for when nations would go off the gold standard and the demand for gold rose dramatically as a safe harborGǪthus the price of gold went up. But as the price of gold went up then the currency price of goods and services had to go downGÇöi.e. deflation. Now using the equation of exchange again,
MV = PQ
If P goes down, then either T has to go up or M and/or V has to go down to maintain equality. The most likely thing to happen is for V to go down. Why? Well the longer you hold money the more you can buy with it in this case. Hold on to that cash long enough and soon it will have an effect on the real side of the economyGÇöi.e people are holding their cash and not spending it on goods and services. So then monetary phenomenon start to have real effects and the solution is obvious. Ditch the gold standard and start printing money (increase M). Countries that did this earlier did much better than countries that hung on to the gold standard.
Now, in the game, the ability of people to mass produce tritanium means that the price is relatively stable with a given set of mechanics. We wonGÇÖt see a sustained price increase for tritanium like with gold above. Trying to corner the trit market would be very hard and prohibitively expensiveGǪand would likely fail anyways and could wipe out the person(s) that tried it.
Still, I donGÇÖt see any of the real world problems with inflation in the game (aside from maybe PLEX prices) to indicate we need to switch to a resource backed currency.
Not disagreeing, but the part missing is that everything we are saying hinges on a central banking system to regulate and control (which is ridiculous in the context of EVE). In the absence of a central banking system, as well as the absence of a need to spend ISK (you have to spend money to survive IRL, you don't have to spend ISK in EVE), as well as EVE being an isolated environment (the original idea is useless without completely removing ISK), the idea of a resource based economy doesn't make sense.
Basing it on minerals simply makes it unnecessarily complicated (and easier to manipulate) without adding any discernible difference to inflation, basing it on a fixed quantity assets assumes there is control from a central authority, which is flat out counter to EVE.
I would argue a big part of why countries did better coming off a gold standard has a decent chunk to do with the fact that once your currency is backed the the faith of your government, rather than a quantifiable product, it is much easier to add leverage to that government's balance sheet. |

Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
82
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Posted - 2016.01.16 00:45:19 -
[13] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:I'd argue that CCP is our central banker. They could, do things like add/increase ISK sinks, they could also change rat bounties. My guess is since they don't see much inflation in terms of game items they haven't seen much need to mess with stuff.
As for fiat vs. gold backed currencies it is much easier to inflate the currency in the former case. During the Great Depression the U.S. government actually shrank the money supply! In 1930s the Fed was out there selling treasuries--i.e. taking money in exchange for government debt. By today's standards it was nuts.
But all that aside I see literally no reason to do this. That one guy wants to consider ISK of no value in game and convert it all to tritanium...fine, whatever. I don't care. Everyone else appears to have sufficient faith that CCP is not going to go off the rails and increase rat bounties by 1, 2 or 3 orders of magnitude.
I definitely wasn't clear enough, CCP is absolutely our central banker. I don't think it's a good idea to implement any policies in the game that would require more interaction from them with that role. What the FED did from that time through the 50s caused passive long term issues, it took Volcker's insanity to actually stop the bleeding caused by it.
Back to the issue, I'm still 100% convinced this guy is a troll, since there really is absolutely no reason for this idea. |
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